I like Dark Heresy, that’s a given. I liked how the most recent edition of Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play is mechanically similar to Dark Heresy. I’ve never played WHFRP though. When I heard that Fantasy Flight Games had announced a new edition of WHFRP at GenCon, I was pretty stoked. “If they cut some of the cruft that I saw in the WHFRP 2nd ed. rulebook, my friends and I will probably give it a go.”
Well, there’s good news! FFG is holding a pre-release event with an introductory adventure, “A Day Late, a Shilling Short.” Awesome! Did you click on that link? Did you see the accompanying image? Here, let me help.
just... just WTF, FFG? WTF!?
I’m speechless. What’s the point of all this stuff? This isn’t a role-playing game, it’s a role-playing game plus a lot of stuff that’s almost-guaranteed to complicate things.
Is there any point to all of this other than the faint hope that we’ll lose some pieces and need to purchase replacements? Will those special dice add anything to the game that normal dice couldn’t accomplish along with a table? And don’t tell me you don’t like tables — I’ve played Dark Heresy. You freakin’ love tables. It’s almost as though this RPG was engineered with the intention of selling as many superfluous accessories as possible. Kinda reminds me of a certain popular fantasy RPG that also recently saw the release of a new edition.
You know what? I take that last statement back. That particular game just encourages the use of plastic minis — it didn’t add loads of tokens, special dice, and cards from a UFS-style card game.
Hopefully they’ll have this demo at my local Comics-and-Games store. I’ll want to see, in-person, what all this stuff is for.
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The dice and stuff are so it can’t be downloaded illegally and actually be usable, except as a collection pdf.
We’ll have to see if it serves any other useful purpose.
They want to hurry up too.
Before I pass judgment I’d like to see if all this stuff is actually required or if it’s just novelty accessories. If the game is inexorably linked to all the props, then yeah, that sucks horribly.
Wyatt´s last blog ..Characters of Eden: Nefer Ravanam, Wizard
“Will those special dice add anything to the game that normal dice couldn’t accomplish along with a table?”
I couldn’t help laughing when I got to that statement. Complaining a game isn’t an RPG because it uses special dice is one of those statements you should step back from and see it how an outsider would see that statement in a den of d20s.
Using tokens and markers instead of a complicated score sheet (which is what a character sheet is to outsiders) makes A LOT of sense. In board games that shifted from score sheets to tokens and markers, it reduces the constant eraser smudges and errors in math.
I use such tools in all RPG’s I play. Poker chips for HP is the most common one I use.
http://zzarchov.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-no-love-for-play-area-improving.html
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Cruft?! In WFPR 2nd ed?! No, a thousand times no…
WFPR, while not as streamlined as DH/RT is still an excellent and straight forward system. I’m extremely sad that it’s now out of print, because I would quite like to have built up a collection of the books.
My main issue with 3rd ed is that it’s designed for 2 to 4 players. If you want the bits required for more players, you have to buy an expansion. It’s a rather strange and very board-game-esque style of marketing.
However, I still want to try playing WFRP 3rd ed.
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Hammer: Because of you, I’m going to give WFRP 2nd ed. another look.
Zzarchov: I never said it wasn’t an RPG. You can have your tokens and markers and all the hassle of hauling them around and keeping up with them. I’ll stick to pencil-and-paper.
With tokens and markers (unlike fancy dice which are a hallmark of RPGs) you can always just use pencil and paper and mark down the tokens the same as you always have. Its much like playing cribbage,
Having a cribbage board with pegs to move along as you score is nice, but really you just need a pen, paper and the ability to count to 121.
Zzarchov´s last blog ..Upcoming Projects
I really don’t see the issue. Apparently many people forget the old days of role playing games and the tables and charts they had to look up. The only thing that changes with this edition is how those tables and what not are presented. You might try and say that an 8 sided dice with 3 attack and 2 defend symbols on it, with 3 blank sides, forces you to use the special dice, but not really. It’s the same thing as saying 6+ hits, 1 and 2 defend, and the rest count for nothing. I don’t know what symbols are on the dice, nor what they mean, I’m just throwing this out there. Basically, the special dice remove the need for something like a THAC0 table.
The action cards are also nothing more a different way to represent things that have been around for ages. I fail to see how action cards can be considered an evil, but a book filled with page upon page of magical spells is okay. I’d much rather just have easy to organize and use cards representing the spells I can cast then have to flip open a book every time I cast a spell.
Even the martial abilities fall in the same category. Look back at D&D, and remember the rules for bull rushing, disarming, grappling, etc? Every time someone wanted to use those abilities, you’d have to open up a book, and wham, reread the rules. With Warhammer 3E, these actions are put on easy to reference cards.
Yes, it’s different. That’s the point. I don’t want to have to open up a book or be forced to memorize the rules every time I want to do something. Finally, at the end of the day, you aren’t limited by the rules. The rules give you a guideline, but the game master has the final say. The only limiting factor is people’s ability to accept that a different presentation doesn’t change the fundamentals of a role playing game.
Finally, I keep finding it odd that people talk about how you can only play with 4 players. I’ve not seen anything that restricts this. The core game might give you the materials for 4 players, but I don’t see how it is any different then a new character sheet that you can print out. Oh no! You aren’t using officially approved character sheets or you might share cards! The horror!
Honestly, so many complaints about how 3E is violating the tradition of role playing games, all from people who seem to forget what role playing games are all about. Which is a shame, because I see FFG trying to put out yet another Fantasy RPG, a genre which is brimming with competitors, and trying to do something different to attract new players without compromising what a role playing game is.
It’s a shame.
Having played WFRP since first edition (I still have the Games Workshop first edition), I was kind of sad to see it go this direction. I always liked the game the way it was. 2nd edition improved some things, but in others it lost some of the grittiness that first edition had. Hopefully 3rd edition doesn’t continue that trend. Unless I see otherwise though, I doubt I’ll buy it. Not really a fan of all the extras.
Rubbish, pure rubbish. So FFG is going down the “let’s release a new edition every two to three years” road. Should spend more time on releasing supplements than a whole new game, then a whole new range of supplements to support the ne game, very dissapointed.
Looks like it’s back to Harn.
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